Causecast

by NICHOLAS CHUNG, Causecast Writer

Identical twin Indie duo Tegan and Sara have been busy winning awards and producing work across genres since they first burst onto the scene in Canada back in 1995. Since then, they have been vocal in their support for various causes, including gay rights.

Causecast’s Brandon Deroche recently caught up with the twins to discuss their take on Prop 8, civil marriage in Canada, community service, the Love Unites movement and being out in the music industry.

CC: What are the causes you’re passionate about?

Tegan: Well, obviously most recently, our last American tour kind of fell at the exact same time as the American election. Obviously the election itself was extremely important to us, but the whole Prop 8 thing was very close to home for us as gay artists; we were obviously really hoping that Prop 8 would not pass in California. I was here for a month and a half after that, so I went to all the marches and you know, blogged online and tried to get people to support. Sara and I both did the Love Unites posters. We really tried to get involved and sort of wrap my head around how that happened. Like how California itself wasn’t supportive of gay marriage just didn’t seem to make much sense at the time. It was very anti-climatic to hear that President Obama was President, and then to hear that Prop 8 passed – it was like "ehh, I’m sad and happy all at the same time.” So confusing…so Prop 8 was kind of the last thing that we got involved in. We’re obviously still monitoring all of that and doing what we can to make sure that people know that still needs to change obviously.

“We weren’t a gay band, we were gay people in a band.”
- Sara Quinn

Before that, the last thing we did was a huge fundraiser for an organization back home in Canada, in British Columbia specifically, that raises money for kids from low income or single parent families to do music lessons. They do basically like a certain amount of scholarships a year, so that was the last big thing we were in because obviously being musicians…when we were growing up, we came from a single parent family, my grandparents helped out. They bought us our first piano. We were lucky we had family members to help us out, but lots of kids, there’s no funds for them to get into music now that schools are cutting all their music programs. It’s really sad, so this organization started and approached us because one of our dear friends who was our lawyer, he passed away from cancer, and they started this portion of the charity that was in his name and we were like “Oh my God this is so amazing!” So that’s the last big thing that we did.

CC: Have you had many of your fans share stories?

Sara: Yeah. I mean, countless. Especially since we were ‘out’ when we started our career like 10 years ago, so it was always something that the fans have been aware of. So there was obviously in the beginning a lot of kids interested in the band I think for really personal reasons. I don’t think they weren’t interested in us as musicians too, but I think that, I mean I know from even when we were teenagers growing up, people that were even just like queer allies like Kathleen Hanna or Ani DiFranco or whatever…those people, their statements, even just talking about it, using the words, were so important and I think that lots of people don’t even realize that even gay people now who didn’t necessarily grow up in the 80’s or 90’s or whatever where things weren’t spoken about so casually in press or on television, when somebody who you looked up to and respected would talk about it there was a relief, someone you could identify with. So much about culture is about seeing ourselves – on television or in film, in music, in magazines. So often we don’t see people who resemble us. We see the real extremes or the fringe of what represents us, but I remember when we first started just touring and playing music and talking about it in the press. It was like we were kind of the first young people who were in a band, and we weren’t a gay band, we were gay people in a band. I think that was a huge distinction when we first started playing music. So the stories are endless.

It’s not even just kids who are gay, but it’s as heart wrenching as parents, it’s siblings, it’s people in the military, it’s just people in general who maybe were a bit close minded about things and then they meet us and they start talking to us and we sort of push those boundaries. We’re not like a “Oh, we don’t wanna talk about it cause we don’t want our band to be that kind of band.” We are those kind of people. So if that makes our band that kind of band then…it’s not even a question, I just can’t even imagine it. We also really early on realized we were not a political band, but we were super political people and we knew that there was a change coming. We were right at the beginning of that change and I think it was super important for Tegan and I at whatever cost, being out, whatever effect that was going to have on our career, we knew we wanted to be a part of that movement and we didn’t want to be one of the bands that like came out later when it was safe. Like, we wanted to be…we were willing to take that risk.

CC: What’s the difference in laws in Canada regarding gay marriage?

Sara: We’re allowed to get married! (laughs)

Tegan: 2004 was when it was common law. It only became legal to get married. But I think it was actually 2006 that it became legal to actually get married. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure that it was a little later…

Sara: The civil marriage act went through in 2004. It was at an interesting time because it was when we still had a liberal government and they were just about to be thrown out and the conservative party, our sort of republican party, was about to come in. It was one of the last things that our prime minister did.

Tegan: Let’s google it!

Sara: For real! I just did it actually because for the Love Unites, the Shepard Fairey poster…the Love Unites, it’s a big campaign happening right now. As artists you had to change it or augment it somehow. So I actually wrote a huge chunk of our prime minister at the time, Paul Martin’s, speech. I found it one of the most inspiring speeches of a political person, in our time anyways. It was in 2004, so I do know, but I do appreciate it. Tegan’s been spending a lot of time in America so she’s working on American years now…

Tegan: Well I just remember 2004 and I don’t remember it happening then, but maybe you’re right. Maybe I’m just really old.

Sara: What did happen that was really interesting is that Paul Martin gave this speech where it was very specific that no religious person, no priest, no church was going to be forced to do this.

Tegan: Like to marry people…

Sara: Yeah it wasn’t about forcing this on these people or whatever.

Tegan: Like, “Everyone has to be gay now.”

Sara: “All the priests must marry.” (laughs) But what I think what was so important about his speech was, and the part that really resonated with me at the time was that we should never have the minority unprotected, and the majority’s whim should never affect the minority’s.

Tegan: It shouldn’t be left up to a vote is basically what he said. Which was profound…

Sara: Or a fad. Because if it’s not written into the constitution which is the debate, I think in America, and oh my God I can’t even imagine this happening in America, but Paul Martin wanted it to be written into our constitution as in it could never change. You could not have a conservative government come in and go…

Tegan: Which is what the conservative government was threatening to do.

“We also really early on realized we were not a political band, but we were super political people and we knew that there was a change coming.”
- Sara Quinn

Sara: So Paul Martin wanted it to be into the constitution which did not happen. The conservative party came into power and put it to a vote and thank God, it went through. It still got passed, and so now it is in our constitution meaning it can never change. I think that is what is so important for me as a gay person, as someone watching this happen, the idea that you could make something legal or give a right to somebody and take it back. Which is what is so obviously harmful and horrifying about Prop 8 is that it was something that was happening and everybody was into, and now its been taken away. I think that, you know, when it comes to human rights this is not like you know, you’re allowed to wear pink and now you’re not allowed to wear pink, this is like a serious…this is something serious and it’s affecting people. The thing that I love about a lot of the press that’s been happening in States about it, for the people who are really fighting this, for the people who really don’t want this to happen, I would love to just sit down and talk to people because I can’t imagine how it would even impact their lives in anyway. We’re good ambassadors for Canada, because it’s not changed anything.

Tegan: That is what was so sad about being here after the election and going to all those rallies. The first night after the election, after the rallies, I was standing with this older Filipino woman, who was like, in her seventies, and could, like, barely speak English, and her arms wrapped around her son and his partner, and she had one of those big, like, you know, signs that you put the top over you on either side, you know -

Sara: Sandwich board.

Tegan: Sandwich board, thank you. That says, you know, “Give back my son’s rights.” And I was just like, “ff…” and I had these two women on the other side of us who were like in their seventies and had been together ever since they were in their early thirties and had photos of them in their thirties and photos of them in their seventies on this big signs, and I was just standing there, and I was like, I feel so sad that these older grandmas are so terrifying to people, it’s terrifying that these two little old grandmas want to crawl into bed together, who probably don’t even sleep in the same bed, if they’re anything like my own grandparents, they’re probably in separate beds by now, and it’s so weird when you get into the thick of it, you know, when you’re right standing there with those people, and it’s like, “Why is everybody so afraid right now,” I do not understand. What’s frightening is going to a town hall meeting, and people have automatic weapons. No, no gay people have weapons, you know, we were unarmed gay people, and we just wanted to ruin our lives by getting married. That’s all we wanted. You know, it’s terrifying. It was so sad. And I had just started dating, just a few months before, a girl who had never dated girls before, and that first night we got back to the car and she just broke down, started sobbing. And I was like, (laughs) “Oh my god, okay,” and she was just like, “This is horrible! They can’t do this to us!” And in my head, I was like, “Oh that’s so cute,” and I wanted to kinda be like, “Well, you’ve been straight for thirty-three years, I mean, c’mon, it’s not you that they’re doing this to,” but I was like, “Oh, it’s okay”…but I was like, this sucks, this is stupid, like, and you just articulate…

Sara: No! But you know, that’s the thing. No one else is articulate from the other side. You know, you’re just in that moment, and all the speakers were swearing, like, “Fuck this and fuck that, and blah blah blah,” and you’re just like, “Fuck yeah, totally, this is stupid.” Totally. It doesn’t make any sense. Anyway, sad. Happy and sad, at the same time.

“It’s like, oh, Ellen’s on TV, it’s fine, the gay movement is over. We’re equal, everyone’s fine.”
- Tegan Quinn

CC: In terms of gay rights and so forth, but also in a general sense, despite Prop 8 and all that, do you guys feel optimistic?

Sara: The last ten years, because we’ve been such public figures over the last ten years, I feel like we’ve had a very heightened experience with how things have changed, for women and also for gay people, and for -

Tegan: – for Americans…

Sara: Well, for everybody. Speaking more generally, I feel very optimistic, in some territories, obviously, where things are going, and I think America, specifically, where things are going, I think we’ll continue to move in a great direction, when it comes to gay rights, and unions and all that stuff, but…

Sara: Even things like health care, you know? The idea that they’re about to come closer than they’ve probably ever come in America-

Tegan: -Yeah. There’s so much change happening right now, and it’s really easy to get discouraged, but when I think about ten years ago doing press, or you know, being gay and coming to the US, like I just went on a holiday to San Diego, and I was just walking around holding my girlfriend’s hand in the Gaslamp district, and I thought to myself, you know, I probably wouldn’t have done that ten years ago. It really does feel different, it feels like there’s less stigma. I was saying recently, that from our own perspective in press, the significance of us being gay is starting to, like, it’s not that big of a deal, it’s still important, which we’re like, it’s important, you know, we want to make sure that everyone is comfortable and knows whatever, but it doesn’t feel like it’s something that separates us from people anymore, it’s just an adjective to describe us or something. So, I feel optimistic and I feel things are really changing, but I still feel in some places it’s really sad and it’s still really horrible, and it gets really easy because it’s in the mainstream, it’s like, oh, Ellen’s on TV, it’s fine, the gay movement is over. We’re equal, everyone’s fine. If you can have a number one talk-show, it’s okay to be gay. It’s like, it’s really different for women than it is for men, you know? A lot of my gay guy friends, you know, have gotten beat up in the village. In Vancouver. And not my friends, but you know, like gay men are getting beat up in the village in Vancouver – Vancouver! You know, it’s like, Gaylandia! I’m just like, “what happened? How did that happen?” So, I think there have been major improvements to the condition for women and gay people in North America but there’s still these horrible, horrible sections of society that are so close-minded. It’s awful. Terrible.

CC: How do you feel that music can play a role in creating social change and pushing things forward?

Sara: Obviously, there’s not been some huge wave of political music which is tough because and sometimes I find that political music is usually is so marginalized because it’s political, that it doesn’t have the impact that say, a pop band, like U2 being political, but still making pop music, with the occasional political song, how impactful that can be. So I’m thinking that, currently, though, you have really articulate, well-spoken musicians who are out canvassing and talking about things that matter to them. You know, for us, obviously, we talk a lot about gay rights and being gay and sexism and feminism, and all of those kind of things. But you have tons of people who are talking eloquently in the press right now about things like health care. And, in Montreal, for example, I’m really aware of, I love that the people in the Arcade Fire are constantly talking about Haiti and the things that are going on in the countries that are important to them, or where they’re from or whatever. So when you see people not just talking about themselves or their music, I find it inspiring. I love it. And I never think when I see a band talking about something that is important to them that they’re preaching, or that they’re trying to push something down, you know, your throat. After the end of a long day, to be honest, it’s nice to kind of talk about other people’s problems, and other people’s issues, and not necessarily just talk about, well, like, on tour relationships, and it didn’t work out, I’m sorry, I wrote a bunch songs about it, and it’s kind of nice to know that you are here for some other important reason, and I think a lot of bands are just chomping at the bit to talk about something that they care about, you know?

CC: I like to ask people, you know, everyone uses the word “peace” a lot in terms of causes and social change, but what really is peace? What does peace mean to you guys?

Tegan: (Sigh) We’re like, we’re not peaceful…(both laugh) There’s so much unrest and especially when you’re…there’s this cycle of things don’t feel right, so I will make things better and there’s this always trying to make change and I guess like even on a probably cellular level, just genetically, we come from this very violent past of hunting and gathering and changing and fighting and wars and whatever and, I mean, when I think of that old-school cliché of, like, you know, give peace a chance, or like, we just want peace in the world, that is when I start to feel really cynical, like I can’t imagine a world where there isn’t conflict, where there isn’t the neighbor telling the other neighbor to get off his land, whether it’s as epic as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, or it’s just like my neighbors who actually fight over getting each other’s shit off of each other’s lawn -

Sara: There’s a terrible story on Dateline about a guy who shot his neighbor because he had a rock on his property, it’s terrible.

Tegan: I mean, it is. It’s terrifying. I mean I would love to think that we can get to this place where there’s peace within, I’m not sure, like, you know, like that you can find that there will be periods in our history where there won’t be so much unrest, war and all of those things like that…

“And, maybe that’s peace, knowing that a set of needs will be provided, and it will never be taken away, that’s your bloody right…”
- Tegan Quinn

Sara: I think that’s where it has to start. I think that’s where it has to start you know, maybe it was very lofty at one point, like peace, like, no wars! Disarming nuclear weapons! You know, it was very ambitious. And I don’t think that we have to give up on all that, but it starts with one person. It starts with hopefully one person that spreads to everybody else, where you can accept who you are, you can be comfortable with who you are and be comfortable with what you have and want the best for the people around you and whenever I think of peace it’s like sort of like you’re not leaving a situation where you hopefully have not destroyed that situation that person, that environment, that country when you went into it…and yourself, you know ultimately -

Tegan: I also feel like when your needs are being met, when you have this whole idea of something that have will not be taken away, I wonder if a lot of conflict comes from people having to struggle for something over and over and over again. Certainly, with health care, talk about it all the time – in Canada, it’s not perfect; my dad will chew you an earful for like three hours about how our health care system is not perfect but I never worry about health care. I do not worry that I will ever hurt myself and be turned away or have to mortgage my house or my parents will become bankrupt because I broke my foot, like, I don’t ever have that worry. And that has gotta do something to you as a human being, to grow up in a place where you never worry about that. There is always going to be a bed and a doctor and no bill. Like, that’s just – I never think about that. And when you really talk to an American, and you say that to them, they’re just like, what is that even like? And, maybe that’s peace, knowing that a set of needs will be provided, and it will never be taken away, that’s your bloody right, you just will always have those rights, and I think that we’d have a lot less unrest in the world if we just provided basic needs for everybody and that it was guaranteed that it will never be taken away. And I’m not talking about ponies and Corvettes, either, I’m talking about, you know? Just the needle in the bum and some antibiotics. Just that dream that everybody wants. You know?

Tegan and Sara release their sixth full-length studio album, Sainthood, October 27.

For more on Tegan and Sara, visit: www.teganandsara.com.

Read more Causecast musician interviews at www.causecast.org/music.

Photo 1 by Brian Teutsch, flickr.

Photo 2 by Amanda M. Hatfield, flickr.

Photo 3 by ecodallaluna, flickr.

Photo 4 by soeljo, flickr.